Comments on: Montréal is a pathetic

By: Émile Thomas

Émile Thomas — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:50:32 +0000

ÉMILE Gender: Masculine Usage: French Pronounced: ay-MEEL French form of Aemilius. This name served as the protagonist in Jean-Jacques Rousseau's Émile, ou De l’éducation. On its publication in 1762 it was publicly burned.

By: Leila

Leila — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:23:01 +0000

Alex, what pisses me off about this posting is not the “flowery language” or “calling us out on our bullshit”, but how completely juvenile it is.

I am NOT interested in listening to whining, griping, scapegoating, narcissistic critiques, or short-sighted blaming. That can go in the Montreal Gazette. I expect more from Spacing writers (and commentators for that matter): thoughtfulness, incitefullness, maturity, broad world views, a sense of sharing, and a desire to educate. Émile Thomas seems interested in neither educating nor sharing, but just pissing on how “bad” we are and we don’t deserve this city. Maybe I’ll look forward to an Émile Thomas posting in a few years. For now, forget it. He or she has some growing up to do.

By: Alex

Alex — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 06:12:58 +0000

Montreal (you and I and everyone on this island) doesn’t bother to vote, which ultimately means that we don’t care enough to protect our city. I for one think that we don’t deserve a city as grand and beautiful as this one. The language in this post is a bit harsh but are we mad at its author for her word choice or because we are realizing that she has called us out on our bullshit? I think I am with Xavier. Because when you strip away the flowery vocabulary, I cannot find one point that I truly disagree with.

By: Adolfo

Adolfo — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:29:32 +0000

I agree with what you said cheese. Indeed “those who care” are not a *random* sample of the whole population and thus they may not be representative of it. Ideal would be if everyone cared. Thanks for replying!

By: cheese

cheese — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:47:29 +0000

Adolfo, thanks for the clarifications and I agree with your conclusion that if everyone were obliged to vote that we would end up with similar results given the same initial conditions (media, information access, etc).

I also agree that it is more accurate to say “the amount of people who support Tremblay and care enough to vote is about 9.81% of the population”.

Where we diverge is that I think it is significant that some people cared enough to vote while others did not. People who do not care who runs this city should not be considered part of Tremblay’s (or anyone’s) support base.

Having said that I also agree with the fact that the sample size we’re talking about here is certainly statistically significant. But only if the two groups we’ve created here (those that care enough to vote and those that do not) are considered to be similar enough to be part of one population. Perhaps they are, but perhaps not. Statistics don’t take into account the ideology or motivation of the individuals behind the numbers. So they don’t present the whole story when we’re talking about complex creatures such as ourselves. Fantastic and versatile tools though, those statistics!

By: Adolfo

Adolfo — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 02:12:57 +0000

I do not have any political comments, but as a mathematician I feel the obligation to correct part of cheese’s comment:

You say “His support comes in at only 9.81%.” That could be true if you conveniently define “support,” but it is a very misleading statement.

Please note that, statistically, the more than 30% of the registered population that voted is a very significant sample of the whole population. In other words, if Tremblay won with X% of the votes, that means his actual support among the whole registered population is very close to X%.

You could say “the amount of people who support Temblay and care enough to vote is about 9.81% of the population,” but that is not a very relevant statement if you think about it, since forcing everyone else to vote would most probably produce the same results.

By: Xavier

Xavier — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 01:13:50 +0000

Tristou, paradoxalement je partage ton opinion ET celle d’Émile Thomas.

C’est justement parce que Montréal a tant de potentiel que c’est enrageant de le voir gaspillé.

By: Alanah Heffez

Alanah Heffez — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 23:12:27 +0000

merci, tristou.

By: cheese

cheese — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:53:01 +0000

I think many people were disappointed by the results of this election, and yes some media outlets calling less than 40% voter turnout “high” seems ridiculous.

Taking the numbers from the montreal-elections site (now that all the votes are tallied) and doing some quick math we see that only 14.45% of registered voters actually voted for Tremblay. That’s not exactly a huge groundswell of support. Of course it’s even worse if you consider to total population (of the actual city boroughs that were involved in the election), since this includes minors, immigrants, and students that can’t vote as well as people who could but are just not on the register. His support comes in at only 9.81% (this was using a population total of 1,620,693 which I think is from the 2005 census).

There are inherent problems with first-past-the-post elections, especially those that involve more than two people/parties. This is an issue here, the rest of Canada, the states, England and anywhere that does not have some form of proportional representation.

Some cities in the US try to get around this by having a second election that only involves the top two candidates. This way the field is reduced and votes don’t get split.

Some countries like Australia require all of its citizens to vote by law, and individuals are fined if they fail to comply.

There are problems even with this though, such as uninformed people just picking names. Methods to legally spoil a vote, etc.

Anyway, some good came out of this election and I think Montreal is a fantastic city that is getting better, if more slowly than I’d like.

By: Leila

Leila — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:51:27 +0000

Emilie, whoa. Je comprends que t’es passioné par cette ville, par la culture, par la societé, par la hostie election, mais ton attitude piquante snob est vraiment trop. Laisse tomber ton cholère des “zines” et arrive en ville avec l’intelligence generale de Spacing.

By: Tristou

Tristou — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:49:37 +0000

Wow, ça fait du bien lire ces mots tellement positifs.
Je refuse d’avoir honte de ma ville et mes concitoyens, même avec ces scandales si intéressants et notre participation relativement faible aux élections – surtout sachant que les deux sont des pinouttes comparés de ce qui se passe ailleurs dans le monde.
Donc, je vais continuer à adorer ma ville, merci. Je vais continuer à aimer son centre-ville compacte et vivant jour et nuit, entouré de quartiers intéressants et accessibles à pieds avec ses rues commerçantes pleines de magasins indépendants offrant un choix vertigineux de produits qui reflètent si bien le mélange de cultures et de goûts des Montréalais.
Je vais continuer à adorer l’architecture et le tissu urbain de Montréal et son système de transport bien pensé, le tout qui permet aux gens riches et pauvres de vivre dans de grands logements proches des services et des parcs et des dépanneurs qui livrent de la bière.
Je vais continuer à adorer la collecte des vidanges 2 fois par semaine y compris des objets encombrants, et ça, juste devant ma porte, et la récupération où je peux tout mélanger (sauf la styromousse et d’autres exceptions) sans trier moi-même. Et à adorer le recyclage sauvage qui fait partie de notre psyché collective où tout objet le moindre utile et pas trop magané est vite récupéré par un voisin ou un passant.
Je vais continuer à adorer les accents (y compris le mien) que j’entends partout, et le côté sophistiqué et cosmopolite que tant de langues ajoutent à ma ville. J’adore témoigner la danse des langues avec les touristes qui veulent pratiquer leur français affreux ou le soulagement sur leur visages quand on dit Yes, I speak English. Et j’adore les conversations bilingues de mes concitoyens où chacun utilise la langue de son choix et choisit les mots qui viennent les plus naturellement, sachant que tout le monde comprend.
Et enfin, je vais continuer à adorer la liberté d’expression qu’offre cette ville et l’étrange juxtaposition de politesse et je-m’en-foutisme qui encourage les gens de vivre (et de voter) comme bon leur semble sans trop de critique (sauf quelques chialeux qui aiment écrire dans les blogs et les journaux).

By: kyle

kyle — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:42:57 +0000

You know what’s REALLY pathetic? Montrealers constantly calling Montreal pathetic. This comes from both sides, the separatists wanting to push out the english, the english wanting to get back the good old days when they had way more rights and control, the businesspeople talking about how good things were back in the 60s…etc Who cares! Sure, some stuff sucks, and will always suck. This city is by no means unique in this regard. Over time the bad vibes (non scientific term) start to add up and the thoughts enter the public conscience and become accepted fact. Suddenly, being pathetic is an accepted standard, and the population of Montreal is apathetic to the situation because it’s, well, “the way things are.” Where’s the positive vibe on this? Moving forward with productive ideas is the way to make things better. Tremblay may be a bum these days in the middle of a corruption scandal, but he lost a lot of power and may be ready to make some compromises for his third term.

By: cool fat michael 1999 of lovely new jersey

cool fat michael 1999 of lovely new jersey — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:02:29 +0000

Tu as fini avec tes montées de lait?

Democracy cuts both ways, buddy.

By: Ti-Guy

Ti-Guy — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:01:14 +0000

Salut LE GROS,

Pas sûr de te suivre. Si Louise Harel avait été “Liz Hertel,” les ardents séparatistes anglophobes dans l’est de la ville n’auraient pas voté pour elle puis elle aurait perdu pareil. De toute façon, elle est aussi corrompue (et opportuniste) que n’importe qui d’autre.

Guy

By: Denis

Denis — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:18:45 +0000

Je suis francophone et avoir été à Montréal (je réside à Longueuil pour le moment), je n’aurai jamais voté pour Harel. Bergeron aurait eu mon vote. Bien sûr, je ne peux pas parler pour tous les autres. Mais il est évident que les anglophones ont votés pour Tremblay (et Bergeron). Mais je suis quand même satisfait pour le groupe de Projet Montréal, avec un homme dans le Plateau et 25% du vote populaire, ils sont très bien placés pour 2013! Et en attendant, l’influence sur l’administration Tremblay ne peut être que positive.

By: LE GROS

LE GROS — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 04:45:57 +0000

Je dis ça comme ça, mais je pense que y’a une bonne partie des votes de Mr Tremblay qui vient de non francophones qui ont préféré un mafieux corrompu à une ex-péquiste. Si Louise Harel avait été “Liz Hertel” elle aurait surement battu Tremblay.