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	<title>Comments on: Il est interdit d&#8217;interdire</title>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://spacingmontreal.ca/2009/05/19/il-est-interdit-dinterdire/comment-page-1/#comment-11028</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 07:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spacingmontreal.ca/?p=2606#comment-11028</guid>
		<description>The problem is the recruiting. When was it the last time you heard that someone you know and respect decided to join the force? You don&#039;t. So the people who get the job are the same losers and bullies who barely finished high school. And once enough of these individuals infiltrate the group their actions and bad behavior spreads like cancer. The department never takes any corrective measures and thus reinforces the negative behavior. If they did they wouldn&#039;t have enough cops on the force so they let things slide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is the recruiting. When was it the last time you heard that someone you know and respect decided to join the force? You don't. So the people who get the job are the same losers and bullies who barely finished high school. And once enough of these individuals infiltrate the group their actions and bad behavior spreads like cancer. The department never takes any corrective measures and thus reinforces the negative behavior. If they did they wouldn't have enough cops on the force so they let things slide.</p>
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		<title>By: trotteur</title>
		<link>http://spacingmontreal.ca/2009/05/19/il-est-interdit-dinterdire/comment-page-1/#comment-10998</link>
		<dc:creator>trotteur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 21:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spacingmontreal.ca/?p=2606#comment-10998</guid>
		<description>Donc si je comprends bien, quelqu&#039;un qui est seul avec 2 enfants ne peut pas prendre le métro car il n&#039;a pas assez de mains???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donc si je comprends bien, quelqu'un qui est seul avec 2 enfants ne peut pas prendre le métro car il n'a pas assez de mains???</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://spacingmontreal.ca/2009/05/19/il-est-interdit-dinterdire/comment-page-1/#comment-10954</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 16:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spacingmontreal.ca/?p=2606#comment-10954</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s just ridiculous - even if she talked back to the policeman, she should have been given a warning at the most or explained the importance of the rails in terms of security... such a waste of time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That's just ridiculous - even if she talked back to the policeman, she should have been given a warning at the most or explained the importance of the rails in terms of security... such a waste of time.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Dufour</title>
		<link>http://spacingmontreal.ca/2009/05/19/il-est-interdit-dinterdire/comment-page-1/#comment-10951</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Dufour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 13:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spacingmontreal.ca/?p=2606#comment-10951</guid>
		<description>Paul Arcand talks about it here:

http://www.985fm.ca/chmp/audio/audioplayer.php?url=http://mediacorus.corusquebec.com/webcorus/audio/content_Audio/200631.mp3</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul Arcand talks about it here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.985fm.ca/chmp/audio/audioplayer.php?url=http://mediacorus.corusquebec.com/webcorus/audio/content_Audio/200631.mp3" rel="nofollow">http://www.985fm.ca/chmp/audio/audioplayer.php?url=http://mediacorus.corusquebec.com/webcorus/audio/content_Audio/200631.mp3</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tux</title>
		<link>http://spacingmontreal.ca/2009/05/19/il-est-interdit-dinterdire/comment-page-1/#comment-10933</link>
		<dc:creator>Tux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 19:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spacingmontreal.ca/?p=2606#comment-10933</guid>
		<description>Our problem is that our police keep doing stupid, brutal brain-dead things that most of us, put in their place would never contemplate. 

To solve this problem, we have to figure out the underlying causes. In my opinion, these are legion, but a few of them might be:

• The Us vs. Them mentality that exists on both sides of the equation. Cops view the public as nothing more than potential criminals, we view the cops as nothing more than armed government tax men with a penchant for brutality, racism, and general assholery. This is an oversimplification, not every cop or member of the public is like this, but I think I&#039;ve described more or less the roots of the division.

• The system is unfairly weighted in the cops&#039; favour. It takes no effort for a cop to give a ticket, or detain someone without just cause but it&#039;s the height of bullshit to contest a ticket or get a charge thrown out, even with evidence overwhelmingly in your favour. The public need effective advocates in the police force. Public/volunteer policing would be an excellent way to address this.

• Cultural Sensitivity: Cops need to be intimately familiar with the place they are asked to serve. That means knowing the language and culture, it means knowing shopkeepers, it means knowing the names of local kids. It means, in short, that the cops need to be part of the community. It should mean that when a cop arrests someone, gives a ticket, asks someone to move along, they are not only thinking of their service record when considering what to do, but also their standing in the community. Cops need to be connected personally to the consequences of what they do. 

Which brings us to:

• Lack of accountability: Cops get away with killing. They get away with racial profiling. They get away with all manner of bullshit, because again, the system is unfairly weighted. When it comes down to your word against a cop&#039;s, 9 times out of 10 it won&#039;t matter what other evidence there might be. The cop&#039;s side is the official side and that&#039;s the end of the story. 

• The laws governing our interaction with police are borderline retarded:
If you didn&#039;t do anything wrong, of course you&#039;re going to resist arrest. This charge gets thrown around carelessly all the time. I think we should abolish it. 
We can&#039;t photograph police? Excuse me? A lot of the time, citizen photos or video are all we have to prove police wrongdoing. Throw this one out too.

• Civility: If a cop can&#039;t be civil and polite while doing his job, he shouldn&#039;t do the job. Let&#039;s face it, cops are rude, and that&#039;s one of the main reasons that many of us dislike them. Respect goes both ways, sure, but when you&#039;re paid tax money to protect people, you have to expect bullshit and deal with it maturely. Cops do things to retaliate against people who gave them a hard time and that&#039;s not okay. The law&#039;s the law, and saying &quot;fuck you pig&quot; shouldn&#039;t earn someone arrested additional legal trouble. It&#039;s called freedom of speech, bitches. 

That&#039;s all I got for now... take all this with a grain of salt, it&#039;s just my opinion, but one thing is sure, our police force is sick and needs healing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our problem is that our police keep doing stupid, brutal brain-dead things that most of us, put in their place would never contemplate. </p>
<p>To solve this problem, we have to figure out the underlying causes. In my opinion, these are legion, but a few of them might be:</p>
<p>• The Us vs. Them mentality that exists on both sides of the equation. Cops view the public as nothing more than potential criminals, we view the cops as nothing more than armed government tax men with a penchant for brutality, racism, and general assholery. This is an oversimplification, not every cop or member of the public is like this, but I think I've described more or less the roots of the division.</p>
<p>• The system is unfairly weighted in the cops' favour. It takes no effort for a cop to give a ticket, or detain someone without just cause but it's the height of bullshit to contest a ticket or get a charge thrown out, even with evidence overwhelmingly in your favour. The public need effective advocates in the police force. Public/volunteer policing would be an excellent way to address this.</p>
<p>• Cultural Sensitivity: Cops need to be intimately familiar with the place they are asked to serve. That means knowing the language and culture, it means knowing shopkeepers, it means knowing the names of local kids. It means, in short, that the cops need to be part of the community. It should mean that when a cop arrests someone, gives a ticket, asks someone to move along, they are not only thinking of their service record when considering what to do, but also their standing in the community. Cops need to be connected personally to the consequences of what they do. </p>
<p>Which brings us to:</p>
<p>• Lack of accountability: Cops get away with killing. They get away with racial profiling. They get away with all manner of bullshit, because again, the system is unfairly weighted. When it comes down to your word against a cop's, 9 times out of 10 it won't matter what other evidence there might be. The cop's side is the official side and that's the end of the story. </p>
<p>• The laws governing our interaction with police are borderline retarded:<br />
If you didn't do anything wrong, of course you're going to resist arrest. This charge gets thrown around carelessly all the time. I think we should abolish it.<br />
We can't photograph police? Excuse me? A lot of the time, citizen photos or video are all we have to prove police wrongdoing. Throw this one out too.</p>
<p>• Civility: If a cop can't be civil and polite while doing his job, he shouldn't do the job. Let's face it, cops are rude, and that's one of the main reasons that many of us dislike them. Respect goes both ways, sure, but when you're paid tax money to protect people, you have to expect bullshit and deal with it maturely. Cops do things to retaliate against people who gave them a hard time and that's not okay. The law's the law, and saying "fuck you pig" shouldn't earn someone arrested additional legal trouble. It's called freedom of speech, bitches. </p>
<p>That's all I got for now... take all this with a grain of salt, it's just my opinion, but one thing is sure, our police force is sick and needs healing.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Dufour</title>
		<link>http://spacingmontreal.ca/2009/05/19/il-est-interdit-dinterdire/comment-page-1/#comment-10924</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Dufour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 14:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spacingmontreal.ca/?p=2606#comment-10924</guid>
		<description>How can you expect the &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;b&#339;ufs&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt; to be &#8220;members of the communities&#8221; they &#8220;serve and protect&#8221; when they live in bedroom communities far away from the city?

In this case, they clearly acted like bullies when the girl talked-back to them. If a cop expects instant respect without giving anything in return, there is something seriously wrong with him. Nowhere in the law it is required to be absolutely nice to a &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;b&#339;uf&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt; (although the police union is trying hard to abridge free speech by having swearing at cops prohibited). 
Issuing the ticket when the girl made it clear she was not going to hold the handrail is clearly the retaliation cops offered when talked back to.
And it is quite likely that the &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;b&#339;uf&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt; did not tell the girl why she was being arrested (as he &lt;strong&gt;is obligated to do&lt;/strong&gt;*), prompting her to withold identification until she was properly notified of the reason why she was being ticketed in the first place, further triggering the arrest for obstruction.
If there is one who did the obstruction, it is the &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;b&#339;uf&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt; himself; likely expecting to be instantly respected, he did not like having his &#8220;wisdom&#8221; questionned by a HC&#8224;.
When questionned about this, a STM flunky seemed to be &#8220;&lt;em&gt;relieved that this happenned in Laval&lt;/em&gt;&#8221;, as is &#8220;&lt;em&gt;thanks, in Montr&#233;al, we don&#8217;t do those kind of things&lt;/em&gt;&#8221;. Oh right? How about that photographer who was &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/story.html?id=c762e33f-ff08-4867-b174-22eb6aabdf43&amp;k=84541&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;fined $628 for sitting in a sculpture in &#201;milie Gamelin square after he photographed some cops roughing-up some bums there&lt;/a&gt;?
But, again, this is the Laval police, the very same Laval police who botched-up a drug raid in Brossard (where it doesn&#8217;t have jurisdiction) after abusing a search warrant (&#8220;serving&#8221; it outside of the madated hours) obtained under false pretenses. It&#8217;s no wonder that shooter Parasiris was to be acquitted of killing the cop; the &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;b&#339;ufs &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;brought it all upon themselves, especially for not checking if the guy to be raided had a weapon license (oopsie. Now one &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;b&#339;uf&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt; is dead because of that. &lt;em&gt;Think of the widow and the children!!!&lt;/em&gt;).
No, clearly there is something wrong with the police. Maybe only the Laval police or maybe the police in general.
Must be the police in general, because recently, the institut de police du Qu&#233;bec announced they will change their curricula, following complaints by police chiefs who are not satisfied by the new freshly-minted recruits because they tend to &lt;em&gt;discuss orders &lt;/em&gt;instead of blindly following them.
Oh! The humanity! (There is nothing new there. Back before World War I, US soldiers participated in exchanges with the german army. German officers were totally dumbfounded when they saw that the US officers actually EXPLAINED to their soldiers what they were about to do instead of just telling them!!!).
The institut de police was setup so the police force would emerge from the neanderthal days of the 1970&#8217;s police (where they raided &#8220;&lt;em&gt;faggot bars&lt;/em&gt;&#8221; with machine guns) and give the policepersons some kind of uniform training. One could suppose that over the years the quality of the police coming out of it was much better than the &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;b&#339;ufs&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt; of yersterday. And perhaps that freshly minted constables question themselves when asked to do something bad by their superiors, and actually &lt;em&gt;discuss&lt;/em&gt; such orders.
Make no mistake, being police chief is all about control. Control of the &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;b&#339;ufs&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt; under him, for sure, but also control of society at large.
And that&#8217;s what&#8217;s wrong with the police, they expect to be in control whereas in a Democracy, it&#8217;s the people who are.
&#160;
* &lt;a href=&quot;http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/#juridiques&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Section 10a of the canadian charter of rights&lt;/a&gt;.
&#8224;&lt;em&gt;Hostie de civil&lt;/em&gt;, what many cops call those who are not blessed by policeness. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How can you expect the <em><strong>b&oelig;ufs</strong></em> to be &ldquo;members of the communities&rdquo; they &ldquo;serve and protect&rdquo; when they live in bedroom communities far away from the city?</p>
<p>In this case, they clearly acted like bullies when the girl talked-back to them. If a cop expects instant respect without giving anything in return, there is something seriously wrong with him. Nowhere in the law it is required to be absolutely nice to a <em><strong>b&oelig;uf</strong></em> (although the police union is trying hard to abridge free speech by having swearing at cops prohibited).<br />
Issuing the ticket when the girl made it clear she was not going to hold the handrail is clearly the retaliation cops offered when talked back to.<br />
And it is quite likely that the <em><strong>b&oelig;uf</strong></em> did not tell the girl why she was being arrested (as he <strong>is obligated to do</strong>*), prompting her to withold identification until she was properly notified of the reason why she was being ticketed in the first place, further triggering the arrest for obstruction.<br />
If there is one who did the obstruction, it is the <em><strong>b&oelig;uf</strong></em> himself; likely expecting to be instantly respected, he did not like having his &ldquo;wisdom&rdquo; questionned by a HC&dagger;.<br />
When questionned about this, a STM flunky seemed to be &ldquo;<em>relieved that this happenned in Laval</em>&rdquo;, as is &ldquo;<em>thanks, in Montr&eacute;al, we don&rsquo;t do those kind of things</em>&rdquo;. Oh right? How about that photographer who was <a href="http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/story.html?id=c762e33f-ff08-4867-b174-22eb6aabdf43&amp;k=84541" rel="nofollow">fined $628 for sitting in a sculpture in &Eacute;milie Gamelin square after he photographed some cops roughing-up some bums there</a>?<br />
But, again, this is the Laval police, the very same Laval police who botched-up a drug raid in Brossard (where it doesn&rsquo;t have jurisdiction) after abusing a search warrant (&ldquo;serving&rdquo; it outside of the madated hours) obtained under false pretenses. It&rsquo;s no wonder that shooter Parasiris was to be acquitted of killing the cop; the <em><strong>b&oelig;ufs </strong></em>brought it all upon themselves, especially for not checking if the guy to be raided had a weapon license (oopsie. Now one <em><strong>b&oelig;uf</strong></em> is dead because of that. <em>Think of the widow and the children!!!</em>).<br />
No, clearly there is something wrong with the police. Maybe only the Laval police or maybe the police in general.<br />
Must be the police in general, because recently, the institut de police du Qu&eacute;bec announced they will change their curricula, following complaints by police chiefs who are not satisfied by the new freshly-minted recruits because they tend to <em>discuss orders </em>instead of blindly following them.<br />
Oh! The humanity! (There is nothing new there. Back before World War I, US soldiers participated in exchanges with the german army. German officers were totally dumbfounded when they saw that the US officers actually EXPLAINED to their soldiers what they were about to do instead of just telling them!!!).<br />
The institut de police was setup so the police force would emerge from the neanderthal days of the 1970&rsquo;s police (where they raided &ldquo;<em>faggot bars</em>&rdquo; with machine guns) and give the policepersons some kind of uniform training. One could suppose that over the years the quality of the police coming out of it was much better than the <em><strong>b&oelig;ufs</strong></em> of yersterday. And perhaps that freshly minted constables question themselves when asked to do something bad by their superiors, and actually <em>discuss</em> such orders.<br />
Make no mistake, being police chief is all about control. Control of the <em><strong>b&oelig;ufs</strong></em> under him, for sure, but also control of society at large.<br />
And that&rsquo;s what&rsquo;s wrong with the police, they expect to be in control whereas in a Democracy, it&rsquo;s the people who are.<br />
&nbsp;<br />
* <a href="http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/#juridiques" rel="nofollow">Section 10a of the canadian charter of rights</a>.<br />
&dagger;<em>Hostie de civil</em>, what many cops call those who are not blessed by policeness. </p>
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		<title>By: Marc</title>
		<link>http://spacingmontreal.ca/2009/05/19/il-est-interdit-dinterdire/comment-page-1/#comment-10923</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 14:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spacingmontreal.ca/?p=2606#comment-10923</guid>
		<description>I have no symapthy for this woman.  She could have rifled through her bag at the bottom of the escalator.  She disobeyed a direct order by the police and talked back.  She got what she deserved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no symapthy for this woman.  She could have rifled through her bag at the bottom of the escalator.  She disobeyed a direct order by the police and talked back.  She got what she deserved.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://spacingmontreal.ca/2009/05/19/il-est-interdit-dinterdire/comment-page-1/#comment-10921</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 13:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spacingmontreal.ca/?p=2606#comment-10921</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not convinced that community policing is the answer. I think the police are here to serve and protect us, not be our friends. I don&#039;t think the reason my respect for them has fallen is because they are not present in my neighbourhood&#039;s schools, community centres, etc. It has fallen because they kill people and make stupid arrests like the one describe above.

Rather than spending money on school programs and dancing in the streets during parades,the police could be taught and trained to be better decision-makers. Rather than people laughing at them, people should have a healthy respect and confidence in them and I don&#039;t think they can earn this by posing for pictures, they can earn this by showing us they know what they are doing, that they make wise decisions and that they don&#039;t react to aggression out of fear or racism but sound, ethical values.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm not convinced that community policing is the answer. I think the police are here to serve and protect us, not be our friends. I don't think the reason my respect for them has fallen is because they are not present in my neighbourhood's schools, community centres, etc. It has fallen because they kill people and make stupid arrests like the one describe above.</p>
<p>Rather than spending money on school programs and dancing in the streets during parades,the police could be taught and trained to be better decision-makers. Rather than people laughing at them, people should have a healthy respect and confidence in them and I don't think they can earn this by posing for pictures, they can earn this by showing us they know what they are doing, that they make wise decisions and that they don't react to aggression out of fear or racism but sound, ethical values.</p>
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		<title>By: Philippe</title>
		<link>http://spacingmontreal.ca/2009/05/19/il-est-interdit-dinterdire/comment-page-1/#comment-10919</link>
		<dc:creator>Philippe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 12:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spacingmontreal.ca/?p=2606#comment-10919</guid>
		<description>I had in one of my university course one about law related to technologies.  One of the thing he said about STM Laws were that since you had pay a ticket for an entry into the metro, and had not been fully gived all the rules about this entry (contract), as in &quot;loi de la protection du consommateur&quot; you were not aware of them and can contest them.  He said in the course it could be tried, not being fully sure it would work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had in one of my university course one about law related to technologies.  One of the thing he said about STM Laws were that since you had pay a ticket for an entry into the metro, and had not been fully gived all the rules about this entry (contract), as in "loi de la protection du consommateur" you were not aware of them and can contest them.  He said in the course it could be tried, not being fully sure it would work.</p>
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